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Starfarer - Option or necessity?

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Some very useful points made on here. I have one now. Everybody will need fuel and the cost mitigation one offers i'm hoping will be significant. A 'farer will also offer the opportunity to conduct extended missions away from supply lines.

 

 

 

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I plan on grabbing one during the Anniversary Sale.

 

My big question is what's the downside to the Starfarer Gemini versus the standard. A dev said they had the same pods (where previously it's was 4 for the G and 6 for the standard). I'll sacrifice a little speed for a upgraded hull armor, shields and weapons.

 

Also with the fuel pods being able to be swapped for cargo, there is very little reason to have a Caterpillar. Cat has approximately 200 more SCU inside but is that worth being able to refuel your entire fleet and then swapping pods for cargo and gaining approximately 3000 SCU..

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Interesting video, the guy isn't in the same league as Tac when it comes to polish and presentation, but he does raise some interesting points

 

I think that not everyone will need one, some of the longer range ships will be able to complete missions into deep space without refueling.  But I do see these ships as legit money-makers, since its true that fuel is the 'one ring' that binds everything.

 

The downside of the StarG is the reduced fuel cargo and some manueverability.  The base model will be better for hauling in 'safe' space while the StarG will be better in military fleet ops.  I do not believe that a lone StarG will have enough guns and armor to be substantially safer operating alone in null-sec.  Both models will need escorts to survive a determined attack.

 

smaller version

 

he mentions multiple times that this is the only option for fueling (currently), but I'm thinking that there will be single/two-person versions of all of the large industry ships.  Just as the Orion has the smaller Prospector, I think that there will be a smaller fueler up for sale at some point.  Pure speculation on my part.

 

processing

 

Do either of the Starfarer models come pre-fitted with a refinery? Also does the Gemini come with the means to collect fuel or does it come as stock with the missile system?

 

Both variants come with limited fuel processing tools. The Gemini comes with both the external nozzle and the missile pack (in the fiction, Geminis typically mount the nozzle rather than the missiles.)

 

What is the advantage of refined vs unrefined fuel?

 

Refined fuel can be used, unrefined fuel cannot. The Starfarer’s equipment will refine fuel much more slowly than a dedicated refinery, but quickly enough for personal use. So you’ll be able to choose between trucking vast quantities of fuel to a refinery, or refining a more limited amount immediately for your own use.

 

"well-protected"

 

he used the phrase to describe the Starfarer, but I disagree.  This thing has big forward guns but it is extremely vulnerable to assault by fighters; slow, less than agile, and with large blind spots underneath, death could come slowly but steadily if enough firepower is directed on it to bring down the shields.  

 

FPS/wasted space

 

I share his disdain for the layout, but not simply because its aFPS level map, but because of the waste and duplication.  The two sets of duplicate elevators is really immersion breaking.  The large internal cargo bay with its walkways makes an excellent FPS arena, but I wish they'd clean up those redundant elevators.  Grenades and some of the larger personal weapons and armors will make choke points pretty hard to defend against a determined attack, so the idea of side-by-side elevators to make it harder to defend is not necessary.

 

Starfarer v Star G

 

The ship matrix is a mess, still (/smh).  While the narrative text has always said that the StarG will have bigger manned turrets, the matrix lists identical equipment.

 

They've also said that the StarG is a MISC hull that has been modified by Aegis, but the model currently in-game is essentially just a reskinned base model.

 

Cargo

 

The value of the Starfarer for non-fuel cargo is going to be in the internal bay, we'll be able to replace the fuel pods with stor-alls but it won't be as efficient due to the piping.  There is still a huge need for Hulls and Cats.

 

Can the Starfarer’s underslung fuel tanks be swapped out for holding straight cargo containers?

 

Yes! Standardized Stor-All containers can be used instead of fuel tanks (though if you’re only interested in cargo, a Hull series ship might be a better choice; less space wasted on fuel pipes!)

 

CIG Matt Sherman @CIG_M_Sherman 3:55pm

 

"FWIW, the Starfarer SCU listings are accurate, though they do include the external storage pod capacity in their total."

"How the pods work out, not sure. Right now, they have an approximated capacity defined to them though, which is what the listed number was based on"

"Then the base Farer has 6 external pods, the Gemini has 4."

"On just Interior-Only SCU capacity though, both Farer's are at 291 SCU where it's split as 3 cargo-grids in the main hold." 

 

Wild Speculation

 

Someone is going to find a way to turn the StarG into a military ship, something like a dropship or insertion vector, perhaps to put vehicles on the ground.  It might also turn into some kind of spooky C-130 gunship.  Again, wild ass speculation, but we know someone will try.

 

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1 hour ago, ichi said:

 

Wild Speculation

 

Someone is going to find a way to turn the StarG into a military ship, something like a dropship or insertion vector, perhaps to put vehicles on the ground.  It might also turn into some kind of spooky C-130 gunship.  Again, wild ass speculation, but we know someone will try.

 

 

I watched a video yesterday where some guys put a Merlin in the bay of a Starfarer and transported it to a space station. I absolutely LOVE that the game is not so rigid as to prevent that sort of creativity and adaptability. 

 

That said I see our Org placing requests for fuel on long range missions and possibly some food or other sustaining items for deep space missions. The Starfarer seems to be the perfect answer to that call. Or fleets engaged in battles on the front will also need fuel, again, it's the answer. 

 

That's what I love about SC. It's not just different ships for the sake of looking different or pleasing the eye of different people. They actually have different purposes. I suppose it still remains to be seen if they can deliver on all the operational aspects of these ships. I'd love to see my Starfarer pull along side an Endeavor, or an Idris or something and see the fuel lines go out and hook up for refueling. 

 

Pretty much what OP said, it's an excellent opportunity.

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4 hours ago, Gigowatt said:

That said I see our Org placing requests for fuel on long range missions and possibly some food or other sustaining items for deep space missions. The Starfarer seems to be the perfect answer to that call. Or fleets engaged in battles on the front will also need fuel, again, it's the answer. 

 

This is a perfect opportunity for me to point out that the Tac Military needs more than jet jockeys and trigger-pullers.  Small squad battles are one thing, but if we're going to engage in large scale fleet ops we will need Starfarers, Endeavors, Crucibles, Caterpillars, Cutlass Reds, and every other type of ship for support.  We'll need captains and crews to keep the front line forces topped off and resupplied.  

 

Our plan is to have support ships in the Military Division, as well as a militia comprised of non-Military Org members - we're calling these folks 'Auxiliary'.  Militia fighters are labelled "Reserves', and we're looking for folks interested in participating in that role as well.

 

If you are interested in be part of the Military in a support role, or if you would like to be an Auxiliary, send me a PM or hit me up on TS.

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7 hours ago, ichi said:

The downside of the StarG is the reduced fuel cargo and some manueverability.  The base model will be better for hauling in 'safe' space while the StarG will be better in military fleet ops.  I do not believe that a lone StarG will have enough guns and armor to be substantially safer operating alone in null-sec.  Both models will need escorts to survive a determined attack.

 

 

Starfarer v Star G

 

The ship matrix is a mess, still (/smh).  While the narrative text has always said that the StarG will have bigger manned turrets, the matrix lists identical equipment.

 

They've also said that the StarG is a MISC hull that has been modified by Aegis, but the model currently in-game is essentially just a reskinned base model.

 

 

 

CIG Matt Sherman @CIG_M_Sherman 3:55pm

 

"FWIW, the Starfarer SCU listings are accurate, though they do include the external storage pod capacity in their total."

"How the pods work out, not sure. Right now, they have an approximated capacity defined to them though, which is what the listed number was based on"

"Then the base Farer has 6 external pods, the Gemini has 4."

"On just Interior-Only SCU capacity though, both Farer's are at 291 SCU where it's split as 3 cargo-grids in the main hold." 

 

The problem is, according to the website, the StarG has better top speed, along with x-y-z acceleration compared to the "stock" Starfarer. I did notice the weapons seemed the same minus the additional missiles the StarG had. This is the problem I have with a Starfarer versus StarG.. The information we have makes it look like the StarG has very limited downsides.

 

starg.jpg

 

Also, here is the developer for the Starfarer saying the Gemini has the same amount of fuel pods as a "stock" Starfarer..

 

Link to Spectrum on Starfarer

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Yep, very much confusion.  In addition to the cargo issue, there's the weapons size.  The original stuff said that the StarG had larger weapons, but in the meantime I've seen words to the effect that the StarG will have larger manned turrets, so no idea if that means the cheek guns in addition to the top and rear turrets.

 

There's also words to the effect that the StarG is slightly faster (like 2km/s) but less maneuverable, but who knows how it will turn out.

 

The ship matrix is not useful here, I don't take it seriously ATM.

 

I'm going with what Matt says, I expect  the StarG to have the same internal capacity, less fuel storage, missile pod and a fuel scoop (swappable), a different internal design, Aegis branding, higher max speed but lower maneuverability, more armor, bigger manned turrets, and be able to mount larger shields and engines.  They also said that the StarG will be produced in fewer numbers in-game so replacement will take longer and probably cost more.

 

That said the StarG still seems like the better deal, even at the higher price point.  Amazingly, the original Q&A said that these could be operated solo, but that too remains to be seen.

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3 hours ago, ichi said:

 

This is a perfect opportunity for me to point out that the Tac Military needs more than jet jockeys and trigger-pullers.  Small squad battles are one thing, but if we're going to engage in large scale fleet ops we will need Starfarers, Endeavors, Crucibles, Caterpillars, Cutlass Reds, and every other type of ship for support.  We'll need captains and crews to keep the front line forces topped off and resupplied.  


Most definitely will. All part of the logistics game. A military with logistical issues is not a fun thing at all.

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I note from the Ship Matrix (yes its broken) But all ships seem to have Fuel Scoops. On that basis there must be the ability to skim for unrefined fuel and the possibility to use it. I would anticipate there being a performance penlaty for it not being refined though. As I understand it, the Starfarer & G both have the same fuel capacity, but the G has a more limited cargo capacity. The G also comes with a missile pod which is of dubious benefit as it replaces the ability to actually skim for fuel!

 

Internally yes, its a total mess. I got lost for 10 minutes when I first went walkabout in mine and I have a good sense of direction!

 

That said, "extended" operations in more than a squad format will benefit enormously from a Starfarer being able to haul supplies AND provide fuel to a unit.

 

I plan on using mine in the most heavily protected space I can find ;) I'm hoping it will be an easy way to earn money initially.

 

I also understand that there will be different grades of fuel, a bit like Regular & Premium. Well I can sell the Regular and hoard the Premium. Money isnt always just money. Goods have a value too.

 

On the Wishful thinking front - A modified Prospector that carries out the same task on a smaller scale would be a great addition. They are both Misc vehicles and argueably the Prospector is a perfect setup as a modular ship for precisely this job.

 

An Army marches on its stomach - This saying, which attests to the importance of forces being well-provisioned, has been attributed to both Napoleon and Frederick the Great.

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8 hours ago, Bursar said:

I note from the Ship Matrix (yes its broken) But all ships seem to have Fuel Scoops. On that basis there must be the ability to skim for unrefined fuel and the possibility to use it.

 


Powerplants run on internal fuel that doesn't need to be replenished.


Fuel for regular flight is collected from spaceborne hydrogen and does not need to be replenished through active refueling.  This is what those scoops gather - fuel for non-Q flight.  This seems to be to keep us from getting stranded because we ran out of fuel.


Boost/afterburner fuel does run out, so you'll have to buy some at stations or refine it with specialized equipment. 


Quantum fuel runs out too, and is as a resource more rare than boost fuel. Probably the bread and butter of Starfarer captains.  

 

I'm assuming jumps take Q fuel.  So I'm assuming this means we'll have to limp to a station in the same system to refuel before jumping out.  


Starfarers can indeed be fitted with refineries, but the Starfarer Q&A posts suggest that it refines it at a slow pace, just enough for personal use. There are great discussions about what personal use entails on the forums, but no one knows for sure.


Ships will be able to be fitted with droptanks to increase their range.

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14 hours ago, ichi said:

 

Starfarers can indeed be fitted with refineries, but the Starfarer Q&A posts suggest that it refines it at a slow pace, just enough for personal use. There are great discussions about what personal use entails on the forums, but no one knows for sure.

All Starfarers have the refinery already fitted you can not remove it. Even if you remove the tanks and fit the cargo pobs in their place, the refinery is still part of the ship. You just cant use it as you have no tanks to hold the hydrogen or the fuel. 

 

It do not say just enough for personal use, it say slower than a dedicated refinery, but quickly enough for personal use. That bottom bit means CIG wants it so it can support at least one exploration ship, if not more. 

What is the advantage of refined vs unrefined fuel?

Refined fuel can be used, unrefined fuel cannot. The Starfarer’s equipment will refine fuel much more slowly than a dedicated refinery, but quickly enough for personal use. So you’ll be able to choose between trucking vast quantities of fuel to a refinery, or refining a more limited amount immediately for your own use.

Do either of the Starfarer models come pre-fitted with a refinery? Also does the Gemini come with the means to collect fuel or does it come as stock with the missile system?

Both variants come with limited fuel processing tools. The Gemini comes with both the external nozzle and the missile pack (in the fiction, Geminis typically mount the nozzle rather than the missiles.)

 

Will the Starfarer be able to refuel itself?

A Starfarer can refuel itself by processing fuel from its tanks. (That is to say, no need for a second Starfarer.)

 

Can ALL the fuel and refining equipment be removed from either variant in favor for an all-cargo carrying version?

No, you’ll always have internal fuel support systems taking up some space. Think of it this way: on the Hull series, the cargo is fully separate from the ship and the job of the ship is only picking it up and dropping it off. On the Starfarer, the ship has to interface directly with the fuel pods in flight… so there’s all sorts of internal plumbing to support this.

 

There seems to be a belief that an explorer would be able to hire a Starfarer for support on long trips, allowing the player to take advantage of a near unlimited supply of fuel.

That seems like a good plan! Having a tanker with refinery capabilities along with you will significantly expand your range. (There will be other limitations that will likely prevent you from going forever, chief among them onboard munitions and system damage.)

 

 

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